Margaret Cho is a chaser? Tranny chasers in dyke communities
Tranny chasers seem to be getting some attention these days. Well, as someone in the trans community, I hear about them all the time, but it seems that the conversation is getting wider. I encountered a post on feministe today (which was linked to from several trans communities I’m on), which is about a San Fransisco Chronical article by Violet Blue interviewing Margaret Cho. In it, Blue writes:
I also discovered her new fetish, what she thinks is “the newest hottest thing to happen sexually”: transmen and trannyboys. Giddily, Cho gushed that she’s a born-again tranny-chaser — of the FtM (female-to-male) variety. “For me, it’s transmen. I’m doing a few things, like working with Ian Harvey. It’s not even FtM — it’s FtX. There’s a band from Toronto called The Clicks that’s all transmen, and it’s like a hot boy band. The girls just go crazy and scream for them — it’s like Beatlemania, but for queers! And packing, and the politics of packing, that’s, like, so hot.”
I find this exotification odd and frustrating because Violet Blue and Margaret Cho are both people I really appreciate. I’m almost expecting some excuse or mistake to be revealed, but it’s probably more likely that they’re simply picking up on and repeating a sentiment that exists throughout queer women’s communities without taking time to think about what they’re saying. If you want to know the details of why that kind of exotification is bad, check out the post at Feministe. What I want to talk about is a little more specific and has less to do with Cho and Blue. I want to focus on the way that this dynamic get’s gendered.
First of all, I can’t touch this subject without going over the differences between chasers who typically go after transwomen and chasers who typically go after transmen. Transwomen communities have a long and difficult history with chasers. With a few exceptions, chasers are generally straight men who are recognized as exploitative if not dangerous. The queer women who are transmen-chasers seems to be a slightly newer phenomenon, and is often seen as forward thinking or radical – even if the same exploitative dynamics exist. There appears to be a coming from an assumption that women are not capabably of such exploitation. Then there are a few who are consciously aware of these dynamics and take on the label of tranny-chaser themselves. While generally viewed with skepticism from the trans community, I think it’s more important to look at their behavior than their label. And if they want to reclaim “chaser” go ahead. Just keep being very careful to explain to people what it is you’re doing.
That said, the big issue I see coming out of this article (besides exotification of course) is that it isn’t discussing an attraction to transpeople, but an attraction to transmen, in a community that is often openly transwoman-hostile. Cho is quoted above refering to this as a phenomenon in the terms of “a hot boy band” or “Beatlemania, but for queers!”. And in many ways that seems, unfortunately, to be the case. There are a lot of queer women who are willing to proclaim an attraction to ciswomen and transmen, and explicitly not to transwomen. Many such people will call themselves trans-sensual. And while attraction to transpeople is generally great, there’s something really wrong about defining trans-sensual in a way that specifically identifies transwomen as a group of people that you refuse to date. Not to mention that that kind of catagorization is coming awfully close to saying that transmen are really women and transwomen are really men.
Historically, transwomen have been excluded from queer women’s spaces while transmasculine folk have been celebrated. The sexism and misogyny inherent in this is somewhat baffling considering the communities longstanding connection to feminism. I think this is often informed by some rather innacurate stereotypes of transwomen, in addition to the community’s valuing of butchness and masculinity and the community’s devaluing of femmeness and femininity. Queer women are often exposed to transmasculine people in the community, but how often are transfeminine folks present to counter these stereotypes. If you think that transwomen are all handbag toting high femmes from the 1950’s housewife era, well, those characteristics aren’t exactly valued in queer women’s communities. But those are just stereotypes. And often it’s these stereotypes that are used to justify why someone is defining their sexuality as not attracted to transwomen — because they’re just attracted to masculinity and butch-ness (which apparently is a quality that cismen don’t have).
There are transwomen out there who are butch. There are plenty of transwomen out there who have the same “dyke” sensibilities that often gets read as masculine. It’s just that many of these women don’t get read as transwomen. Because transwomen are suppoesd to be all feminine, those of us who aren’t become invisible. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard queer women complain about “all the butches turning into men” and I’ve wanted to yell out “what about all the transwomen taking their place?” So you’re only interested in short-haired, tatooed, stocky, dyke-daddies? Don’t assume that there isn’t a transwoman who will fit the bill. And if everyone in your community is only interested in the same, maybe you should start a femme-phobia discussion group.
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Reading this reminded me of a conversation i was having with someone yesterday. It is slightly different, but there is a feel that is similar. i was talking with a friend of mine who works for a porn company that does tranny porn. However, the company only works with trans-women that have penises and are tops/doms. Something about the whole idea had this feel of wrong. Something about the fetishization? of trans women in only a specific context? i couldn’t put my finger on it. Now, i am a tranny dyke who does porn. So i am totally down with tranny folks in porn, and to some degree porn in general, though i try to only be in things that i think are respectful and preferably radical. Somehow what i do and the company he works for feel very different. Any thoughts?
In the trans woman porn I’ve seen it seems to be incredibly formulaic (like much of the mass-produced porn of the mainstream). And having all of their women fit into one specific role is a part of that. I think that’s what makes it objectifying more than anything else: being seen more or less only for your ability (or lack thereof) to top (or dom).
There’s always the opportunity for respectful and radical porn, and it’s been a pet peeve of mine that trans women are incredibly underrepresented in that area. If I go to a progressive porn store I can’t find trans women in any of their videos (except for a few token mainstream videos). And if I go to a mainstream porn store, then I can see shelf after shelf of porn with trans women that seems to have not care whatsoever about issues such as empowerment and other progressive or radical values.
Hi.
Good design, who make it?
It’s called Andreas04 by Andreas Viklund (http://tara.elmadera.com/wordpress)
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*SQUEES IN BEATLMANIA STYLE HYSTERIA OVER YOUR POST*
I hope you don’t mind if I put linkies to this post up at my LJ? It ties in nicely with something that I wrote about trans masculine privilege the other day. (Adds a missing perspecctive).
Cheers
– Ryan
Ryan,
Certainly. I’m glad you enjoy it so.
[...] (Hell, revenge at all?) Not cool. And it’s not as though Cho could ever objectify or fetishize anyone. Nor Amanda [...]
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I am a lesbian. I am a tranny chaser. Transwomen are hot. I prefer the femme ones.
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You know, a lot of people get upset about chasers on grounds of objectification but as a gay(ish) transman I’d be absolutely over the moon if ftms became the latest ‘gotta have it’ in the gay men’s community.
If someone who actually wants to be with a man and is comfortable with admitting it feels like coming up to me and saying ‘Dude, men with extra holes are hot, wanna fuck?’ then I’m cool with that. Its…how the gay men’s community works, to a certain extent, at least for short term hookups, and if trans became just another type along with twinks, bears, cut, uncut, skins etc etc
But when someone dyke who wouldn’t touch an actual guy with a bargehole (an interestingly versatile sentence, I know) goes off on one about how ‘butch+1′ is so fucking hot I want to scrape out her eyes with a spoon.
Its not the objectification, its the idea that this trait of being trans deserves more attention than a fairly shallow interest in novelty, or a liking for the physical acts that might be possible.
Because that’s all it is to me. Being trans doesn’t make me a decent feminist, a safer man to accept a ride home from, a perfect gentleman or a more sensitive lover. It just means that I’m in the statistically unusual position of having a dick and a cunt, and if that’s relevant to someone’s interests then fabulous.
At least the straight male tranny chasers who look at even the worst ’she-male’ porn out there will tell you (often quite defensively) that it doesn’t make them gay.
Yes, they still have the politeness and tact of a concussed boar at a frat party, but they’re usually comfortable admitting that they like women, and that fancying transwomen is a part of that.
When did creepy hetero men start outranking right on, politically aware lesbians on taking transpeople’s genders seriously? What the fuck is with that?
I completely agree that objectification has it’s place. When I’m with the right partner, objectifying and/or being objectified can be fun. The two parts that bother me with chasers is the occassional gender denial, like you mention, and the exotification. From my perspective at least, if someone isn’t exotifying trans people, denying their gender, or being a horrible creep, then I wouldn’t even call them a chaser.
Straight male trannychasers, even while identifying as straight, still often engage in gender denial. It’s when they come onto you with lines like “I think girls like you are even hotter than regular girls, it’s because you have to put more effort into it,” or “All the regular girls have become feminists and don’t put any effort into pleasing a man anymore, that’s what I like about t-girls.”
Not to mention that the creepy hetero men chasers don’t always have the best of manners on their own. I’ve been propositioned in the street, non-consensually felt up in a bar, and asked out by strangers who got my email fron a news article — and I’m a dyke and avoid straight men as best I can (okay, I’m a pandyke, but the guys I’m into have to be queer and not clueless chasers).
Then the exotification, I’ve been thinking of writing another post just focusing on that. It’s the creation of an exotic and novel image of what trans folks are supposed to be like, falling for that image, then projecting that image onto the trans folks you meet even when it doesn’t fit. I don’t mind if folks are attracted to my bits, but if they love the idea of 8″ standing tall and exploding with a half gallon of cum, if they want to feel the hero by validating trans women’s genders through sex with a straight man, then they’re not really attracted to me, but their own deluded stereotypes of what I might be like, and as long as I’m not going to fulfill that, it won’t be fun for anyone.
“At least the straight male tranny chasers who look at even the worst ’she-male’ porn out there will tell you (often quite defensively) that it doesn’t make them gay.”
Good god damn, that’s nice to have someone say. I get tired of people, especially trans people, saying that anyone who finds a pre/non-op trans woman hot is doing it because he likes the guys, which brings me to point two:
“I am a lesbian. I am a tranny chaser. Transwomen are hot. I prefer the femme ones.”
Oliver and Orion, you two make me feel very good about myself and desirable-in-the-right-way.
Sincerely,
a lesbian struggling out of involuntary drag.
*waves to Valerie*
One of the more acceptable versions of ‘yum, trans guys’ that was psychological rather than physically based that I’ve heard was about brave men being hot, and conscious, hard fought manhood being hot.
Which is something I have to agree with generally…bravery and conviction are sexy.
Oliver
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